Margo Chase, founder of Chase Design Group, joined us a few weeks ago for another thrilling installment of Design History with Michael Dooley. She gave a wonderful presentation about the importance of change, and how it relates to her work over the years. She and I caught up afterward to talk about running a business, the double-edged sword of style, and finding inspiration in unexpected places (like, the air).

Is there anything you wish you had done earlier in your career as a designer?

Yes. Getting a good business partner. Chris Lowery is now my official partner, but when he first came to me he was just an employee. I think getting someone who really understands how business works—that can support that side of your endeavors as a designer—is huge. It took me a really long time to realize I needed it, and then find the right person. I don’t know how he understands so much about business and strategy, but he does, so the two of us make a really nice reciprocal pair. It’s a good team.

How did you audition him?

I didn’t. He showed up as a temp. I had somebody who was kind of doing office management and stuff for me, and it just wasn’t working out. I had no idea who he was, you know, he just showed up and then he kind of stuck around. And now he’s totally turned into somebody I can’t live without.

Do you have any advice for students and young designers about to enter the field?

I wouldn’t necessarily recommend starting out how I started. I was pretty much a freelancer or a business owner from the start. The fact that I never worked for a company and never watched the process of what it’s like to be a designer inside a larger company made it really challenging for me. I didn’t understand the hierarchy of a company; I didn’t understand that there was supposed to be a creative director and then an art director, you know what I mean? The really basic stuff. I had to invent all of that or ask friends.

So I would recommend working somewhere good for a while—the best design firm that you can get a job at—for a couple of years, and really pay attention to how they manage their clients, project flow, and who does what jobs. Figure out what they’re doing right, and maybe there’s some stuff you think you can fix. Pay attention and use that, because I didn’t have it and I’ve had to hire that experience instead.

What’s the worst thing someone could do in a job interview with you?

Show up late, probably. Show up with a bad portfolio. I had a student—I mean, the work wasn’t actually that bad, but the presentation was so—they had bound a book wrong. Basically they got it printed out, and you know how sometimes the pagination doesn’t come out right, so the spreads are not actually where they’re meant to be? That was what they had; the pages were all wrong. And I’m thinking, here’s someone coming in for a job interview, and their stuff is wrong. What are they going to do with my stuff?

Have any of your projects been a complete and utter failure?

If they have I’ve blocked it out. (Laughter) I mean honestly, I think I have. People ask me that question all the time, and I’m like, “Failure? No.”

You spoke quite a bit about how you fit into a kind of gothic, vampire niche. How has having that specific of a market been a benefit or a hindrance?

It’s been a benefit, because any time somebody can associate your name with a particular style, it helps your equity, right? It’s like brand building. Some people go “Oh, Margo Chase, she’s the goth girl.” So it helps to fix you in their mind in a particular way. It can be good, because as soon as any of those kinds of things come up, the first thing they do is think of you.

The downside is that it’s a pigeon hole, which is kind of death for designers, because I don’t actually think design should have anything to do with style. Design is about the problem, and so when someone walks into your office and says, “I have this particular problem to solve,” you should be able to use all the tools at your disposal. And if they aren’t goth, fine. For a long time I didn’t have a portfolio that actually demonstrated my ability to do work that wasn’t that style, so people didn’t believe that I could do it. Design is challenging that way.

I think clients are pretty short-sided. They mostly don’t give you work unless they can see that you’ve done something like it in your portfolio. To me, that’s kind of the wrong way to look at it; I think you should look at a portfolio and say “This person is really smart.” In fact, that’s what I look for when somebody comes into my office. I want somebody who has solved problems in really innovative ways, and if they can talk about their work and tell me why they solved it. Even if its not perfectly crafted, if I can tell that there’s actually some innovative thinking, and that that thinking could lead the to a solution that’s cool, or unusual, or groundbreaking, then that’s somebody I want. To me style is the decoration that goes on the surface, and the idea is actually what’s informing that. And if something should be scary and creepy for a reason, because it’s a vampire movie, that’s the right solution. But sticking vampire on cosmetics…maybe not the right solution.

You’re a pilot. How important do you think it is to have non-design hobbies? I think a lot of people get stuck in their design bubbles. How does it help you in terms of inspiration?

I love the flying. It’s actually kind of the same thing as design in a weird way, because the kind of flying I do is competitive aerobatics, which is about making figures.

That sounds so scary!

It’s kind of scary. But it’s actually trying to do a particular thing to a level of perfection, so it’s kind of like what we do as designers. You’re trying to learn how to actually make a machine and your body do a particular thing. It’s like figure skating or something. I think in some ways it’s a lot like what I already do, but it’s doing it in a different medium and it’s doing it in a place that I’m not very good at intuitively. Like graphic design for me now is kind of like a—I don’t have to think very hard about the tools, it just kind of comes. I have a lot of experience. The danger for me now is repeating things and not pushing myself hard enough. The flying is really good because I feel so inept most of the time.

I want to go back to the style thing one more time. What do you think about students having a specific style while they’re still in school?

I think it’s a two-edged sword. I think style is a good thing, in a sense, but I think you have to have the ability to get beyond it. And I think the trap is, as a designer, not being able to get beyond it. I think there are a lot of designers out there that have one voice and that’s it.

Like David Carson?

Yeah. They kind of have one thought, and everything you ever get from them is going to be the same. And, you know, that’s okay as long as that’s in style, and David’s a good example. We’re over that. He’s going to still get work probably from people who want that, and who like that, but it’s kind of like me and gothic. Gothic faded, and then I’m a victim of the market if I can’t expand. To me, like I keep saying, style is the surface, the dressing on the design.

Okay, very last question: what percentage of your wardrobe is black?

Ah, less than it used to be.

Really?!

You wouldn’t be able to tell by what I’m wearing tonight, would you? (Margo is dressed all in black.) No. Uhuh. Technically these are jeans—not black. Yeah, um, not doing too well on that question tonight. I have other colors that are not black. Lime green, and orange, and…yeah.

You just didn’t bring them today?

I just didn’t bring them today. I’m not as colorful as Sean [Adams]. Sean wears lots of colors. I don’t think Sean ever wears black.

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